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Wednesday News:

December 30, 2009 at 10:14 am
Filed under Basketball, Craig Robinson, Geoff Petrie, Luke Owings, Northwestern, Princeton, Recruiting, Today's News

Today's Game: Wagner (2-11 / 0-2) vs. Princeton (5-4 / 0-0)
Location: Jadwin Gym - Princeton, NJ
Time: 7:00 pm ET
Radio: 103.3 fm WPRB
TV: N/A
Internet: goprincetontigers.com
Series History: Princeton leads 1-0.
Last meeting: Princeton 82 Wagner 66 - 11/29/78.

Wagner Princeton
0-4 Home Record 3-1
1-6 Away Record 2-3
1-1 Neutral Record 0-0
343 RPI 101
339 Sagarin 159
332 Pomeroy 163
62.0 Points / Game 56.8
73.2 Points Allowed / Game 58.0
.369 FG% .403
.623 FT% .757
.308 3PT FG% .319
35.2 Rebounds / Game 29.1
11.5 Off. Rebounds / Game         8.1
-6.5 Rebounding Margin -3.3
11.5 Assists / Game 10.7
16.6 Turnovers / Game 15.0
4.2 Blocks / Game 3.1
Martin: 14.8 Points Davis: 13.3
Orock: 7.4 Rebounds Mavraides: 4.3
Czeski: 2.4 Assists Schroeder: 2.8
Martin: 1.8 Steals Schroeder: 1.7
Orock: 1.4 Blocks Buczak: 1.0
Orock: .591 FG% (Min: 10 FGM) Saunders: .595
Conrad: .800 FT% (Min: 10 FTM) Davis: .909
Murray: .417 3PT FG% (Min: 5 3PTM)    Saunders: .500

Northwestern vs. Illinois - 9:00 pm ET - Big Ten Network

Dartmouth vs. Quinnipiac - 2:00 pm ET - NESN
George Washington vs. Harvard - 6:00 pm ET
Brown vs. Sacred Heart - 7:00 pm ET
Maine vs. Columbia - 7:00 pm ET

Northwestern kicks off Big 10 play at Illinois.

A Princeton/Penn game made the TigerBlog list of "Best Games of the Decade."

Princeton recruit Chris Clement scored nine points in Round Rock Stony Point's three point win over La Vega.

Future Tiger Ben Hazel had 13 in Good Counsel's one point STOP-DWI Holiday Classic Basketball Tournament loss to Boys and Girls High School.

Sacramento Kings GM Geoff Petrie received a three year contract extension.

"Outside The Limelight" author Kathy Orton is interviewed by The Quad.

Luke Owings provides a unique perspective looking back on the 2005-06 season.

The wife of Oregon State head coach Craig Robinson is due to have a baby any day.

Around the Ivy League: Ryan Wittman scored a career high of 34 as Cornell (10-2) defeated La Salle, 78-75. Yale (4-8) turned the ball over 30 times in a 70-59 loss at Colorado.

Previous post: Tom Noonan impressions.
Next post: Geoff Petrie press conference.

Rodney Johnson said,

December 30, 2009 @ 11:11 am

Fascinating and very thoughtful piece by Luke Owings. Thanks for finding and posting it.

Jon Solomon said,

December 30, 2009 @ 11:14 am

I can't take the credit for finding it, but I appreciate that it was brought to my attention!

John Poole said,

December 30, 2009 @ 2:23 pm

Luke Owings' remarks pretty much support everything I've heard about Joe Scott as a coach. I recall attending a couple of practices and being very disturbed by Scott's treatment of his players. It's one thing to be emotional, scream at your players, etc. -- I was an assistent manager in the mid 60s and watched several von Breda Kolff explosions in the locker room -- but, Joe seemed to put things on a much more personal level. In addition, Joe never seemed to acknowledge that players like Owings had already achieved a great measure of success before he (Joe) came along and, therefore, deserved a little respect as veterans. Perhaps Joe is a great coach from a technical standpoint, but he is a failure at dealing with people in some situations.

R.W. Enoch, Jr. said,

December 30, 2009 @ 3:46 pm

Owings' post and Scott's ejection earlier this week paint a much more negative picture of the former coach than I had ever imagined as a spectator in the stands. For me retrospectively, it's shocking and disappointing.

Rodney Johnson said,

December 30, 2009 @ 4:26 pm

The comments from Luke Owings come as no surprise to me, even though I never had the opportunity to attend any practices. I had seen those young men play on many occasions under JTIII. The first game I saw under Scott (Duke in Durham), I could sense that something was very different, and every game thereafter there was the same negative vibe.

james schenk said,

December 31, 2009 @ 2:41 pm

I'm looking forward to reading the new book out, "Outside the Limelight" but I thought Owings comments on the Joe Scott years at Princeton were the most candid I've read about to date. I think Coach Scott's style is better suited to the service academies and his current roster at UD seems similiar to the type of player's he had at Air Force. He is definitely an old school coach in the mold of a Bobby Knight. Having seen a UD game on Fox last week, I believe Coach Scott will have success there like he did at Air Force.

Steven Postrel said,

January 1, 2010 @ 5:47 am

I've read that Pete Carril was partly motivated to retire because the newer cohorts of players didn't respond to his negative style of coaching as well as previous ones had. My sense is that Scott comes closer to that Carrilian coaching model than do the other Princeton guys like JTIII, Mooney, Carmody, etc. Although Carril also used to rag on his players in public, which Scott didn't do very much (as Owings mentions in his blog post).

David Lewis said,

January 1, 2010 @ 10:26 pm

Thanks for this amazing post. It would interesting to hear some of Carril's players chime in on the Carril v. Scott comparison. I always heard that Carril was tough but in a teasing, fatherly way. I didn't think he tore them down like Scott did. Did Carril ever say "I need all new guys" when he inherited a team that had just won the Ivy championship? Did Carril have a lot a defectors during his tenure? Did Scott learn his coaching demeanor from Carril? It would be disheatening to think that Carril treated his players like Scott did. Coaches need to be tough to get through to players to make them better, but Scott obviously crossed the line. I can't believe that Princeton basketball players were that much tougher in the 70s, 80s and 90s than today.

Steven Postrel said,

January 2, 2010 @ 12:00 am

I don't have information about the little nuances of personalty and style--tone of voice, context, exact choice of language, body language. What is teasing and fatherly versus cruel and sadistic depends entirely on those details, as well as the auditor's expectations.

I do know that Carril said that he had a negative coaching style--that he focused on what players were doing wrong and criticized them for it. I know he complained that his players in the '90s weren't masculine enough because they ate candy and didn't drink beer. I watched and heard him on the sideline yelling at his players on the floor during games. I read or heard him saying that the players toward the end of his reign weren't as tough as those earlier and they seemed to have trouble taking his coaching. I know that Richie Simkus looked very unhappy most of the time I watched him playing basketball while Carril yelled at him and that Joe Sigl quit the team.

On the other hand, I also know that in public Carril, no matter how critical he was of individual players, always did seem to have individual affection for them. When I heard him joke about how slow Neil Christel was or how Gordon Enderle spent all his spare time at the computer center, there was twinkle in his eye. But Scott was even more positive in public, so it's hard to gauge.

If you weren't there (in multiple eras), and I wasn't, I don't think it's possible to judge with certainty. But I think it is possible that Scott was trying to reproduce a style of coaching that he believed he had learned from Carril. And if that was the case, it is also possible that it came out differently when filtered through his personality, or that it was basically the same but the players had changed. For all I know, Scott may have mellowed a tad at Denver--it's possible he's learning to adapt either to his own personality quirks or to today's non-military players.

Jon Solomon said,

January 2, 2010 @ 10:37 am

It is very much wishful thinking to say Coach Carril was " tough but in a teasing, fatherly way." I could cite numerous stories I have been told by players and bystanders of things he said to cut down specific Tigers that were exceptionally cruel.

While Carril softened with age (I think of an anecdote Coach Thompson told me about bringing Carril into the locker room to motivate his team before a big game and being disappointed with how encouraging Carril was), to play for the man was not dissimilar from what Owings described on his site under Coach Scott.

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